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Post by Moonlight on May 24, 2013 9:35:16 GMT
Here's a judging question:Ivanetti, which has dual classification of ball or miniature ball. The exhibitor puts up a vase of three nice blooms. One bloom is a bit bigger than the other two and it falls within the small size range. The other two blooms are within the size range for miniatures. How would this exhibit be judged? To my mind the vase contains two distinct types. Ball and miniature ball and should be disqualified if the class calls for ball OR miniature ball but not if the class states ball AND OR miniature ball. OR should the judge think that as miniatures are allowed to be up to 115mm before they are disqualified so the whole exhibit is fine. What then would be the outcome if two blooms were 115 mm and the third one117mm? Presumably the exhibit is fine as all three blooms are considered to be small ball. Anyone that has read any of my beginner thread posts will instantly know that the black text couldn't possibly be mine, so where it says 'To my mind' it obviously wasn't voiced by me but I do get the logic. (Although the bold / colour / underline is me  )
Here is another example that I find a bit easier to understand.a bloom of Narrows Tricia, which was less than eight inches in diameter, was awarded a prize in the LSC class. To me it should have been considered to be a medium and therefore in the wrong class and disqualified. (This time it's my wording) Should a Narrows Tricia that is the size of a Medium be allowed to win a Large class just because it has a dual classification of either LSC or MSC?
That bit doesn't seem fair to me and I'm just a beginner who will hopefully be able to tell the difference between a large pom / miniature ball and miniature dec without any helpful hints by the end of the season (without cheating and reading the class label at a show) or coming here and asking .
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Post by sweetpea on May 24, 2013 12:18:26 GMT
'Dual' classification tends to be a temporary solution for recent introductions which have not settled into their 'Normal' bloom size.
After a season or three they will usually be put in to a final classification.
Not too sure about the judging aspects although I have acted as judge in some shows.
In my old society we had numerous show committee meetings over the wording of our show schedules as there were so much ambiguous wording in the earlier ones.
We also put in definitions of words such as 'Should' and 'Must' which were common causes of confusion.
i would contact your show secretary to clarify any points you have as it is better to get these things sorted prior to the actual show.
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Post by Tel on May 24, 2013 13:50:36 GMT
I would go along with this.
if the class states ball AND OR miniature ball. It should not be disqualified.
a bloom of Narrows Tricia, which was less than eight inches in diameter, was awarded a prize in the LSC class. To me it should have been considered to be a medium and therefore in the wrong class and disqualified.
It would be given a NAS for been in the wrong class. But myself been a gentleman, would have pointed the mistake out to the Show Secretary, giving the Secretary the option of moving the exhibit into the correct class, if I had not already judged that class.
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Post by Moonlight on May 24, 2013 13:56:42 GMT
'Dual' classification tends to be a temporary solution for recent introductions which have not settled into their 'Normal' bloom size. After a season or three they will usually be put in to a final classification. Not too sure about the judging aspects although I have acted as judge in some shows. In my old society we had numerous show committee meetings over the wording of our show schedules as there were so much ambiguous wording in the earlier ones. We also put in definitions of words such as 'Should' and 'Must' which were common causes of confusion. i would contact your show secretary to clarify any points you have as it is better to get these things sorted prior to the actual show.
From a beginner's logic why do they need rigid classification anyway? What if you have an absolutely cracking dahlia but the only thing different is it's classification size wise. Isn't it unfair to have an unshowable bloom when dual classification exist? Why can't it be a guide rather than restrictive?
I doubt that it would affect me myself. If I ever got good enough I would probably only ever be able to enter single bloom classes because my garden isn't big enough to have enough plants to find a good match. Single bloom if I am lucky. All I am hoping that I can get 1 single bloom any variety for my local town show.
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Post by Moonlight on May 24, 2013 14:01:32 GMT
I would go along with this. if the class states ball AND OR miniature ball. It should not be disqualified. a bloom of Narrows Tricia, which was less than eight inches in diameter, was awarded a prize in the LSC class. To me it should have been considered to be a medium and therefore in the wrong class and disqualified. It would be given a NAS for been in the wrong class. But myself been a gentleman, would have pointed the mistake out to the Show Secretary, giving the Secretary the option of moving the exhibit into the correct class, if I had not already judged that class. |
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Post by Tel on May 24, 2013 14:06:49 GMT
I would go along with this. if the class states ball AND OR miniature ball. It should not be disqualified. a bloom of Narrows Tricia, which was less than eight inches in diameter, was awarded a prize in the LSC class. To me it should have been considered to be a medium and therefore in the wrong class and disqualified. It would be given a NAS for been in the wrong class. But myself been a gentleman, would have pointed the mistake out to the Show Secretary, giving the Secretary the option of moving the exhibit into the correct class, if I had not already judged that class. [color=Purple ]What's a NAS?[/color] Sorry Moonlight, it is, Not as Schedule. |
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Post by Moonlight on May 24, 2013 16:11:13 GMT
That sounds much better than disqualified. 
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Post by sweetpea on May 24, 2013 18:34:34 GMT
Many years ago when I was a novice I put a melon in the, 'Any other vegetable' class. When I came back after judging I thought someone had nicked it as it was gone  A kind steward had moved it to the correct 'Fruit' class and it actually got a red card |
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Post by Lou78W on May 24, 2013 19:48:46 GMT
Many years ago when I was a novice I put a melon in the, 'Any other vegetable' class. When I came back after judging I thought someone had nicked it as it was gone A kind steward had moved it to the correct 'Fruit' class and it actually got a red card Aw....wasn't that kind of him  |
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Post by Tel on Jun 22, 2013 15:53:23 GMT
Many years ago when I was a novice I put a melon in the, 'Any other vegetable' class. When I came back after judging I thought someone had nicked it as it was gone A kind steward had moved it to the correct 'Fruit' class and it actually got a red card It is still debated, are Melons fruit or veg.  |
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Post by sweetpea on Jun 22, 2013 21:49:30 GMT
Many years ago when I was a novice I put a melon in the, 'Any other vegetable' class. When I came back after judging I thought someone had nicked it as it was gone A kind steward had moved it to the correct 'Fruit' class and it actually got a red card . I say fruit. Rhubarb is classified as veg but treated as fruit in the kitchen. and where did kid creole put his coconuts? |
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