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Post by Lou78W on Mar 15, 2013 16:21:53 GMT
Fingers crossed for you both....hope you have better success with the next batch. This year I have not taken many cuttings, as I don't expect to be showing this season; I've used a mixture of sieved mp; JI seed compost and perlite. No problems so far..
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Post by markb on Mar 15, 2013 16:33:07 GMT
Thanks, Lou. I might end up showing chrysanths instead.
I have just asked a friend of mine who has been growing and showing dahlias for many years how his are this year - they are also going black and in multi purpose/sharp sand mix.
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Post by scrumpy on Mar 15, 2013 23:19:09 GMT
Sorry to here you are both still having problems with your cuttings. If your cuttings look healthy on the tuber then it has to be a combination of heat/too wet compost, with whatever container you are trying to root them in. When I first started taking cuttings I tried many methods, always lost at least half of them, until eventually I ended up with what I now use, shown below. Since then, apart from the ones I knew would blacken and rot because of how the cutting looked before taking it, I rarely lose any. The compost I use is 2 parts any peat based multipurpose compost/ one part horticultural sand/ one part perlite and when mixed together looks like the top picture. Now I've used the same compost year in year out for at least the last 10 years. I just top it up a little every year . The next bit is to prepare the "propagator" and to do this i place 20 square 3" pots in a deep seed tray and surround them with peat. early season I'll get 4 cuttings minimum per pot. Later on, up to 7. Once filled I give it a real good soaking, leave for a few days to settle, then fill up the pots with the rooting compost. This is then lightly watered. The ideal "wetness " is that when you squeeze the compost it sticks together nicely, doesn't drip, or fall apart. That won't need watering again until the cuttings are rooted. All this is done about a week before the first cutting is taken. The whole thing then goes onto the aluminium heat mat, thermostat set to 60'f. The lid is put on the seed tray Once the cuttings are taken they are just left in the propagator with the lid on at all times until rooted. There are a couple of vents on the lid that I leave half open. The heat mat does not stay on all day. The thermostat probe is placed in one of the trays of dahlia tubers, so it comes on when the temperature drops. However, because I've used peat to surround the pots, it retains the heat nicely so the compost is kept warm, never to hot. This may be where you are having problems, the compost may be getting too much base heat. As you can see from the bottom left picture, there is condensation on the lid, but the cuttings do not damp off. They also do not wilt in hot weather...a few times in the last week temperatures have hit 30'c during the day in the greenhouse, and at night have been close to freezing. So temperature variation doesn't affect them using this method. The last picture bottom right shows the cuttings with the lid off. Those have been in there for 7-21 days. Some will be already rooted, but being in 3" deep pots means you can leave them quite a while once rooted before potting them on. Everyone has their own method that works for them but what I like best about mine is that I don't need to mess around with any spraying or covering and could quite easily leave them for days on end knowing they'll be OK no matter how hot or cold it gets in the greenhouse.
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Post by markb on Mar 16, 2013 8:20:55 GMT
Morning Scrumpy. Thanks for that information. I will give your method a try, as well as a couple of others to see what works best under my conditions.
The moisture content is what concerns me with the coco compost, but I will see today as there are a couple of pots of 'Willo's Violet' and 'Trelyn Kiwi' that look as though they have rooted.
As you say the problem could be in the tuber itself. I have now set up my pot tubers which were grown under cover to see if there is a difference in cuttings material. After all anything grown outside last year had a lot of challenges from the weather.
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Post by scrumpy on Mar 16, 2013 8:59:39 GMT
Forgot to say I got the tray and cover from Wilkinson's. What I have also found with my method is that early cuttings seem to grow before they have rooted, so it can be a bit deceptive. A few times I've taken cuttings out thinking they were done only to find no roots at all, yet they had definitely increased in size. I just dip them in a bit more rooting powder and stick them back in. With your coir, I tried it when it first came out, not for rooting but potting on and ended up losing so many plants...overwatering. Never used it again.
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Post by markb on Mar 16, 2013 10:32:55 GMT
Yes overwatering is what concerns me, too. Chrysanths seem to be more tolerant than dahlias. Coir is tricky as it dries out at the top but can be saturated in the root zone. Will post updates - good or bad - through the season.
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Post by dcdahlia on Mar 16, 2013 11:11:55 GMT
I am using a multi purpose/sharp sand mix this year instead of jiffy sevens (getting to expensive) and at the moment I am having no problems.I have given up on oakwood goldcrest tubers producing any cuttings and have asked a mate to keep me some.
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Post by snute2008 on Mar 16, 2013 12:32:18 GMT
Thanks scrumpy, markb and dcdahlia for all your comments they are really really helpful. With going to the NDS AGM tomorrow I wont have time to make up some more compost until Monday but will try your method scrumpy and let you know how I get hon.
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Post by markb on Mar 16, 2013 16:48:35 GMT
Went through all cuttings taken so far. Tipped out of compost and checked for roots, rots etc. Re-inserted those that had not rooted enough for potting on, binned those that had started to blacken/rot and potted up the rest.
'Trelyn Kiwi' has been the most successful with 8 potted on, 3 needing another week and only 1 rotten.
I can't say the same for either 'Willo's Violet' - thirty cuttings taken and all rotted - or 'Rossendale Peach' which also had a 100% rot rate!
The rest were a mixed bag of rooting and rotting. Those successfully potted were: 'Ruskin Andrea' x 2, 'Hillcrest Candy' x 1, 'Ryecroft Laura' x 1, 'Cherwell Skylark' x 2 and the 'Trelyn Kiwi' x 8.
I have taken another 15 'Willo's Violet' cuttings. These have all been dipped in Clonex rooting hormone and inserted into three different rooting mediums. Five each into Canna Coco+, Westland Gro-Sure Cutting Mix and the remainder into just sharp sand. If this does not work then the tubers will be discarded as they may be infected themselves.
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Post by dcdahlia on Mar 16, 2013 20:13:33 GMT
I spoke to soon, checked cuttings today and 5 gurtla twilight have damped off .Also struggling to root minley carol, out of 12 cuttings taken only one rooted.100 per cent succes rate so far with hillcrest candy 24 taken and rooted.
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Post by scrumpy on Mar 17, 2013 22:28:31 GMT
No sign of damping off still. However, and this is a first for me after 30 years or so,some of the cuttings that have rooted have developed flower buds whilst in the propagator. That's from the 2nd pair of leaves. They certainly showed no signs of a bud when I took the cuttings, though I suppose it is possible it was there but to small to be seen. Very strange.
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Post by snute2008 on Mar 18, 2013 8:55:27 GMT
I took some cuttings (35) early morning yesterday (after attempting to go to the NDS AGM but getting car problems and had to return home). I used a different mix of 1 part peat, 1 part multipurpose, 1 part perlite and 1 part sand.
Noticed this morning that about 10 are already starting to turn black.
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geof
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by geof on Mar 18, 2013 16:07:30 GMT
I am no chemist - but may I suggest if any of you are having problems that you have not seen before - ie (looks like damping off) but you have done nothing different for several years and never had a problem - that you first stop using the multi-purpose compost you are using. There have been several papers written since 2008 on the affect of composts containing minute traces of Picloram, Amniopyralid and Clopyralid. Some have labelled these as "killer composts", depending upon what crop you are trying to rear as some crops are more susceptible than others. Perhaps the Dahlia and more importantly dahlia soft cuttings are more sensitive to these herbicides. Sadly with the increase in production of composts by local councils of non screened grass cutting and the like, I can only see this problem getting worse in the short-term. I would suggest buying top quality "screened" compost from a recognised name and if you do see a problem - get the compost analysed and report it back to the manufacturers. The more of who do this, the more the manufacturer will take notice and react to the problem (hopefully). This is worth a read - if you are at all concerned: www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.htmlI hope that helps.
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marynz
Full Member
Tweeting as @POSKidsNZ
Posts: 226
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Post by marynz on Mar 18, 2013 17:37:22 GMT
I had similar thoughts, but wondered about a herbicide residue in the peat as well - it depends where the water in your peat bogs comes from whether there is a risk. You can root cuttings in straight sand.
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Post by scrumpy on Mar 18, 2013 21:28:34 GMT
I am no chemist - but may I suggest if any of you are having problems that you have not seen before - ie (looks like damping off) but you have done nothing different for several years and never had a problem - that you first stop using the multi-purpose compost you are using. There have been several papers written since 2008 on the affect of composts containing minute traces of Picloram, Amniopyralid and Clopyralid. Some have labelled these as "killer composts", depending upon what crop you are trying to rear as some crops are more susceptible than others. Perhaps the Dahlia and more importantly dahlia soft cuttings are more sensitive to these herbicides. Sadly with the increase in production of composts by local councils of non screened grass cutting and the like, I can only see this problem getting worse in the short-term. I would suggest buying top quality "screened" compost from a recognised name and if you do see a problem - get the compost analysed and report it back to the manufacturers. The more of who do this, the more the manufacturer will take notice and react to the problem (hopefully). This is worth a read - if you are at all concerned: www.the-compost-gardener.com/picloram.htmlI hope that helps. Certainly a good tip about composts. I have heard of horse manure causing problems. I have heard of multipurpose compost form the garden centres/DIY stores causing problems. Whether that is a cause in this case I don't know, as I would think for a plant to become affected by these chemicals it would have to be absorbed into the plant and as there aren't any roots that wouldn't happen. Think Sherlock Holmes would struggle with solving this problem
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