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Post by robh on Feb 16, 2015 16:25:07 GMT
well after takein about a hundred cuttings tried different methods mixed potting compost lost a few cutting plasteres sand havent lost 1 and they are rooting in about 2 weeks
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Post by Raymond on Feb 16, 2015 17:08:14 GMT
robh well done good to try some different things. I am trying coir jiffy 7 let's see if they work.
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Post by MarkE on Feb 17, 2015 11:08:13 GMT
I've shortened my name for ease just need to work out the avatar pic change. Formally captainmarkymark
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Post by ian on Feb 17, 2015 15:02:26 GMT
I've shortened my name for ease just need to work out the avatar pic change. Formally captainmarkymark Hi Mark E I am not shortening mine although I or E oh I dunno.
Ian
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dahliadave
Junior Member
"Chocolate" red seedling 5 plants in a 70cm pot in July.
Posts: 77 
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Post by dahliadave on Feb 17, 2015 18:48:06 GMT
Really enjoying the discussion and the sharing of ideas and information. Having a job keeping up with you all! Taken a 1000 or so cuttings over the last couple of days. First batch for orders due to be taken next week. Roughly 4000 or so to take. Some varieties as usual a little bit shy which makes life a bit awkward for our early orders but the signs are there thank goodness! Started sending chrysanthemums out this week (dare I mention them!) interested reading the different methods used to encourage growth on tubers. We have tried most and also covered tubers with pots or put trays under the bench. This draws the cuttings but the smaller leaves made them easier to insert and prepare. They very soon green back up again. Happy propagating and may all your cuttings root well! That's good news David. Bet your Dad's happy to be home with the family. Did he enjoy the book?  Yes , he is a happier as are we all though he is needing a fair amount of care. As for the book he is enjoying it thank you. I am still reading it to him when I get a chance and it is funny how many comparisons I can draw. Bringing back a few memories for him.
This afternoon I have been showing him pictures of some of the new varieties we have for trialling this year. He likes the look of Clearview Edie and Westerton JWH to name but a couple. he does not envy me having to choose new varieties these days as so many good varieties about and so many similar to ones we already have. Also not so many major breakthroughs in breeding as there used to be. Went through some old photos as well including one of his National Exhibits in the 50's when the Small Championship required 6 vases of 9!!
Classification was another topic we got into- particularly about the differences (or not much differences) between Balls and Decs and how many years of showing before a variety should be classified.
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cici
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
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Post by cici on Feb 17, 2015 19:13:45 GMT
Dahliadave, may I ask how many leaf sets you allow on your cuttings? Any particular 'optimum' length to your sprouts? How many leaf/rooting nodes do you submerge into your planting medium?
With multiple thousands needing to be done, it seems to me that you'd have it down to a hair's width with no wasted time!
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 17, 2015 21:15:58 GMT
That's good news David. Bet your Dad's happy to be home with the family. Did he enjoy the book? Yes , he is a happier as are we all though he is needing a fair amount of care. As for the book he is enjoying it thank you. I am still reading it to him when I get a chance and it is funny how many comparisons I can draw. Bringing back a few memories for him.
This afternoon I have been showing him pictures of some of the new varieties we have for trialling this year. He likes the look of Clearview Edie and Westerton JWH to name but a couple. he does not envy me having to choose new varieties these days as so many good varieties about and so many similar to ones we already have. Also not so many major breakthroughs in breeding as there used to be. Went through some old photos as well including one of his National Exhibits in the 50's when the Small Championship required 6 vases of 9!!
Classification was another topic we got into- particularly about the differences (or not much differences) between Balls and Decs and how many years of showing before a variety should be classified.
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Post by Raymond on Feb 17, 2015 22:38:56 GMT
Moonlight I get so confused between them so similar. That is why I liked Clearview Debby in my eyes a true Dec style. If not good enough to compete against a Diane then so be it but petal form I love with the lilac outline .
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Post by ian on Feb 17, 2015 23:22:04 GMT
Hi Raymond, there are people who say if the Diane's were to be classified now they would be classified as Dec's they do not have the best of decorative formation. A real dec formation is probably Senzoe Ursula (Scrumpy grows this well) A great deal of dec and ball Dahlias do look very similar. All we can do as judges is read the classified on the Ideals and try to judge what we see on the bench. There is a thought that because they are so near then may be just amalgamate the two classifications. But I cannot see that happening, as it is if needed we can use them in championships both balls and dec's
Now all we can do as exhibitors is to show them if classified in the appropriate classes and if not classified used them in both classes if you like as they cannot be disqualified if they are unclassified. If they are neat and matching (3-5 in a vase) then you will be in amongst the tickets. Leave it to the judges to decide until they are classified. Just look at George Marston a great miniature Ball Dahlia for a great deal of growers, but now classified as a Miniature Decorative Dahlia. I can remember Dave Spencer comparing a vase of his George against mine and yes one looked like a ball and the other a dec (I nearly said comparing his balls but resisted opps) He he. Growing conditions can affect form hot days and cool nights eg Marston Lilac can lose its form and halfway down the bloom turns into a ball in these conditions (but a lovely dahlia of great colour) shown very well by Franky Frazer in his National championship winning entry two years ago. We now have a wealth of miniatures and it makes the classes certainly at National level in the multi vase classes exciting to judge as there is a varied selection on show.
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 17, 2015 23:43:16 GMT
Hi Raymond, there are people who say if the Diane's were to be classified now they would be classified as Dec's they do not have the best of decorative formation. A real dec formation is probably Senzoe Ursula (Scrumpy grows this well) A great deal of dec and ball Dahlias do look very similar. All we can do as judges is read the classified on the Ideals and try to judge what we see on the bench. There is a thought that because they are so near then may be just amalgamate the two classifications. But I cannot see that happening, as it is if needed we can use them in championships both balls and dec's Now all we can do as exhibitors is to show them if classified in the appropriate classes and if not classified used them in both classes if you like as they cannot be disqualified if they are unclassified. If they are neat and matching (3-5 in a vase) then you will be in amongst the tickets. Leave it to the judges to decide until they are classified. Just look at George Marston a great miniature Ball Dahlia for a great deal of growers, but now classified as a Miniature Decorative Dahlia. I can remembers Dave Spencer comparing a vase of his George against mine and yes one looked like a ball and the other a dec. Growing conditions can affect form hot days and cool nights eg Marston Lilac can loose its form and halfway down the bloom turns into a ball in these conditions (but a lovely dahlia of great colour) shown very well by Franky Frazer in his National championship winning entry two years ago. We now have a wealth of miniatures and it makes the classes certainly at National level in the multi vase classes exciting to judge as there is a varied selection on show.
Why should classification of a variety ruin it's chance of success in exhibition?Especially when some varieties get re-classified.
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Post by ian on Feb 17, 2015 23:52:34 GMT
Moonlight good evening or nearly good morning, you do make some very very good points. To try and answer your question a ball or a dec cannot be duel classified but before it is classified if ever you can show it where you like as long as it conforms to the class, as we have said there are many cultivars that are very similar not being able to quite decide whether they are dec's or balls these are the problem dahlias for me. But most are very nice dahlias. Goodnight Moonlight please don't dream of Balls and decs. He he
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Post by Raymond on Feb 18, 2015 0:27:25 GMT
Hi Raymond, there are people who say if the Diane's were to be classified now they would be classified as Dec's they do not have the best of decorative formation. A real dec formation is probably Senzoe Ursula (Scrumpy grows this well) A great deal of dec and ball Dahlias do look very similar. All we can do as judges is read the classified on the Ideals and try to judge what we see on the bench. There is a thought that because they are so near then may be just amalgamate the two classifications. But I cannot see that happening, as it is if needed we can use them in championships both balls and dec's Now all we can do as exhibitors is to show them if classified in the appropriate classes and if not classified used them in both classes if you like as they cannot be disqualified if they are unclassified. If they are neat and matching (3-5 in a vase) then you will be in amongst the tickets. Leave it to the judges to decide until they are classified. Just look at George Marston a great miniature Ball Dahlia for a great deal of growers, but now classified as a Miniature Decorative Dahlia. I can remember Dave Spencer comparing a vase of his George against mine and yes one looked like a ball and the other a dec (I nearly said comparing his balls but resisted opps) He he. Growing conditions can affect form hot days and cool nights eg Marston Lilac can lose its form and halfway down the bloom turns into a ball in these conditions (but a lovely dahlia of great colour) shown very well by Franky Frazer in his National championship winning entry two years ago. We now have a wealth of miniatures and it makes the classes certainly at National level in the multi vase classes exciting to judge as there is a varied selection on show. Hehe Ian ! All very confusing to a novice but starting to sift through all the variations. I noticed that polventon kristobal was shown in 3 different classes from the bulletin. I do have senzoe thanks scrumpy and winholm Diane thanks to my society. Hopefully if all goes well and I can propogate them and grow them ok it will be interesting to see the comparison. |
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 0:28:50 GMT
Moonlight good evening or nearly good morning, you do make some very very good points. To try and answer your question a ball or a dec cannot be duel classified but before it is classified if ever you can show it where you like as long as it conforms to the class, as we have said there are many cultivars that are very similar not being able to quite decide whether they are dec's or balls these are the problem dahlias for me. But most are very nice dahlias. Goodnight Moonlight please don't dream of Balls oh re misses and decs. He he
That's why I've spent so many hours searching for a Ball dahlia that is in with a chance of beating Mary's Jomanda / Jomanda because at my neck of the woods, nothing else wins.
I know that I sound simplistic in my opinion but I find it so difficult having stood next to my Dad speaking with a member of a public who wanted to know why a Dec had a won a Ball dahlia class but even worse than that is when a member of the classification committee actually agrees that a winning Dec had actually won the Ball class.
I know that my opinions always come across as simplistic but for me it really is a case of banging my head against a brick wall and also feel people reading this thinking that I'm going on about the same thing over and over.
This is the main reason I can't join the NDS because my simplistic opinions don't fit the rule book. 
To me, it isn't a case of a variety can never be duel classified more a case it never will be.
(I don't know why I used the word 'simplistic' more than once, it's just that a big part of me, has read posts made by so many experienced exhibitors and judges that agree (and I highly respect) - where it has been explained to me that I am wrong but I don't understand how I'm so wrong.)
Only Ball dahlias should win Ball dahlia classes and only Dec dahlias should win Dec dahlia classes.
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 0:38:19 GMT
Moonlight good evening or nearly good morning, you do make some very very good points. To try and answer your question a ball or a dec cannot be duel classified but before it is classified if ever you can show it where you like as long as it conforms to the class, as we have said there are many cultivars that are very similar not being able to quite decide whether they are dec's or balls these are the problem dahlias for me. But most are very nice dahlias. Goodnight Moonlight please don't dream of Balls oh re misses and decs. He he
(I don't know why I used the word 'simplistic' more than once, it's just that a big part of me, has read posts made by so many experienced exhibitors and judges that agree (and I highly respect) - where it has been explained to me that I am wrong but I don't understand how I'm so wrong.)
Only Ball dahlias should win Ball dahlia classes and only Dec dahlias should win Dec dahlia classes.
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Post by ian on Feb 18, 2015 17:59:35 GMT
hi Moonlight yes it is very confusing and you are dead right if it does not conform to the class specification then it should not win ie dec formation in a ball class, but you cannot disqualify it if it is not classified. Now some dec's and balls are so close that it can be difficult when judging. There are a couple of ball dahlias more of a ball then Mary's jo ie Lancress great formation of grown to potential an excellent dahlia that will still win and Barbarry Kesteral again has great ball formation ie fully double blooms tendency to be flat on top petals tend to be more rounded at the tip involute for at least 75% of the length of the floret (now that is ok but we cannot take out petals to see if they are 75% involuted) whereas a dec is double the florets tend to be flatter and broader and involuted for now more 75% of its length they usually have a blunt point. Clear as mud I know. It is not as straight forwards as it may seem. Some of this is the breeders fault as they want in the main there miniatures to be dec's (again only an opinion) please breeders don't shout at me. They do tend to be better recieved as a dec and as I mentioned before some balls and dec's are very similar that until a variety is classified they will show it were they feel it suits best, whether it fully conforms or not.
Now another one for you Daves Choice was classified as a dec in 2010 then because it was shown very well down south by a couple of top growers as a ball for a couple of years it was then classified as a miniature Ball. Ah well the debate goes on and on and on and unless we as judges really down point a miniature dec in a ball class and vice versa then breeders will continue to breed in they way they do.
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