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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 22:17:04 GMT
hi Moonlight yes it is very confusing and you are dead right if it does not conform to the class specification then it should not win ie dec formation in a ball class, but you cannot disqualify it if it is not classified. Now some dec's and balls are so close that it can be difficult when judging. There are a couple of ball dahlias more of a ball then Mary's jo ie Lancress great formation of grown to potential an excellent dahlia that will still win and Barbarry Kesteral again has great ball formation ie fully double blooms tendency to be flat on top petals tend to be more rounded at the tip involute for at least 75% of the length of the floret (now that is ok but we cannot take out petals to see if they are 75% involuted) whereas a dec is double the florets tend to be flatter and broader and involuted for now more 75% of its length they usually have a blunt point. Clear as mud I know. It is not as straight forwards as it may seem. Some of this is the breeders fault as they want in the main there miniatures to be dec's (again only an opinion) please breeders don't shout at me. They do tend to be better recieved as a dec and as I mentioned before some balls and dec's are very similar that until a variety is classified they will show it were they feel it suits best, whether it fully conforms or not. Ah well the debate goes on and on and on and unless we as judges really down point a miniature dec in a ball class and vice versa then breeders will continue to breed in they way they do.
In the end with me I went for Downham Royal, Sheila, Blyton Softer Gleam and Clearview Daniel to be grown as potential Mary's Jomanda and Jomanda alternatives. Sounds like I should have gone for the 2 that you suggested. Something for me to try next year.
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Post by ian on Feb 18, 2015 22:19:14 GMT
Miniature Jomanda would not win with me Steve you know that if there were other entries in the class of a similar quality
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Post by ste b on Feb 18, 2015 22:37:02 GMT
Miniature Jomanda would not win with me Steve you know that if there were other entries in the class of a similar quality yes I know it would not win with you Ian and a few other judges I know. Last show I went to mini jo in sm class got 2nd no 1st award given . Great bit of judging hehe |
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 23:03:50 GMT
hi Moonlight yes it is very confusing and you are dead right if it does not conform to the class specification then it should not win ie dec formation in a ball class, but you cannot disqualify it if it is not classified. Now some dec's and balls are so close that it can be difficult when judging. There are a couple of ball dahlias more of a ball then Mary's jo ie Lancress great formation of grown to potential an excellent dahlia that will still win and Barbarry Kesteral again has great ball formation ie fully double blooms tendency to be flat on top petals tend to be more rounded at the tip involute for at least 75% of the length of the floret (now that is ok but we cannot take out petals to see if they are 75% involuted) whereas a dec is double the florets tend to be flatter and broader and involuted for now more 75% of its length they usually have a blunt point. Clear as mud I know. It is not as straight forwards as it may seem. Some of this is the breeders fault as they want in the main there miniatures to be dec's (again only an opinion) please breeders don't shout at me. They do tend to be better recieved as a dec and as I mentioned before some balls and dec's are very similar that until a variety is classified they will show it were they feel it suits best, whether it fully conforms or not. Ah well the debate goes on and on and on and unless we as judges really down point a miniature dec in a ball class and vice versa then breeders will continue to breed in they way they do.
In the end with me I went for Downham Royal, Sheila, Blyton Softer Gleam and Clearview Daniel to be grown as potential Mary's Jomanda and Jomanda alternatives. Sounds like I should have gone for the 2 that you suggested. Something for me to try next year.
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Post by ian on Feb 18, 2015 23:10:12 GMT
Yes that sort of sums up everything on the subject .........and on that bomb shell good night
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 23:16:21 GMT
Night ian 
p.s. Marston George listed amongst the Balls...
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Post by ste b on Feb 18, 2015 23:20:30 GMT
Hi moonlight never seen lancresse classed as a dec, it can take a bit of weather and I think it's best as mini ball it's duel classified , and some stocks a bit iffy .
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 18, 2015 23:40:37 GMT
Hi moonlight never seen lancresse classed as a dec, it can take a bit of weather and I think it's best as mini ball it's duel classified , and some stocks a bit iffy . |
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Post by ste b on Feb 19, 2015 0:16:36 GMT
I have always grown Lancresse , it's a good challenge if you get it right looks suberb if you get the lavender flush in the centre , it gives jomanda a run for its money.
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Post by Moonlight on Feb 19, 2015 1:06:44 GMT
Can you grow it without covers?
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Post by Raymond on Feb 19, 2015 8:45:44 GMT
ste b and ian kristobal was my fav dahlia shown in Kent last year Would have loved the chance to try it but under lock and key. Surprised Dave showed it as he did In harrogate. I was looking at the wrong line yes only a third in that class. Heard kristobal is a numbers plant so it rules it out for a small grower like me. Trialling Mr aspitals pegwell Dan i hope and should be a good one as grown 14 up. I hope to next year to get camano mordor looks a true ball to me it caught my eye On Clearview. Now on to the subject of bi Colour ! Lol
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Post by ste b on Feb 19, 2015 9:24:55 GMT
Can you grow it without covers? Yes will grow with out covers, Rossendale Natatsha is a nice white ball dahlia have you seen it at shows , it's easy to grow like Jomanda. |
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Post by ste b on Feb 19, 2015 9:57:19 GMT
ste b and ian kristobal was my fav dahlia shown in Kent last year Would have loved the chance to try it but under lock and key. Surprised Dave showed it as he did In harrogate. I was looking at the wrong line yes only a third in that class. Heard kristobal is a numbers plant so it rules it out for a small grower like me. Trialling Mr aspitals pegwell Dan i hope and should be a good one as grown 14 up. I hope to next year to get camano mordor looks a true ball to me it caught my eye On Clearview. Now on to the subject of bi Colour ! Lol It's up to us exhibitors to put our vases in the right class , I like bi colours there hard to match though, as are some blends pink suffusion I like so I try to take cuttings off one tuber. |
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cici
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
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Post by cici on Feb 19, 2015 16:19:58 GMT
Raymond, I have been trying to get camano Mordor this year, and of three growers that had it last season, one lost it and two has only a couple tubers to plant out for themselves this season. Looks like a difficult keeper and/or low tuber producer, from those odds. I'm still hoping to receive an unrooted cutting from one in the mail, but I'm not holding my breath. Saw it in a show this year and was amazed by the intense blend of colors! Very different. It goes head to head with Snoho Doris, a powerhouse over here. -J.S Dorothy Rose has a similar blend as Camano Mordor, though the form is decorative.
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Post by Raymond on Feb 19, 2015 17:08:33 GMT
I am trying pink suffusion ste b I ordered it from station house. It a small though so growing it 4 up. Two plants per hole as per ian recommendation. cici I love the look of camano mordor looks a true ball to me. Great colour and form looks great for the picture but I guess only a picture. Hope you can get it I would love to here your thoughts on it In terms of growing it. It stood out on clearviews site to me. I like Snoho Doris and snoho Sonia also caught my eye. To Many lovely dahlias shame I dont have more space. Have you seen Clearview Debby cici in the flesh ? some pictures look great others not sure now. Saw a couple of hapet ball I like the look of from Peter haslhofer in Austria. Maybe next year. |
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